By Instituto Gilberto Gil
Interview Chris Fuscaldo, journalist and music researcher
Margareth Menezes declares her admiration for Gil
What are your first memories of Gilberto Gil?
Gilberto Gil com o músico Jimmy Cliff em show da turnê do álbum Realce (1980)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
The first, most defining memory that I have of Gil was when he did a concert here at the Ginásio Fonte Nova, when he brought along Jimmy Cliff. I was still a student at the time. It was 1980, I was 17 or 18, and it was the first time that I saw Gil live.
Gil e Jimmy Cliff em show em Salvador (1980)Instituto Gilberto Gil
I was a member of a school theater group and I had this really cool friend called Silas Henrique and he took me. There were so many people! It was amazing! It was the first big concert, with such a huge crowd, that I'd been to.
Gilberto Gil e Jimmy Cliff em show em Salvador (1980)Instituto Gilberto Gil
At that time, Jimmy Cliff, Bob Marley, Peter Tosh were the big names but I went because of Gil, because he already meant a lot to me. I had just got a guitar off my mother, I loved playing his songs, my gang got a buzz out of that.
Were you aware that what made Gil so remarkable was that he was a Black man from Bahia who overcame all the barriers of prejudice to become one of the all-time greats of Brazilian music?
Gilberto Gil com Pedro Gil e Caetano Veloso, após saída da prisão (1976)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
Look, all that generation was very symbolic. They were huge … There was Gil, Caetano … This was just four years after he had been in prison… So everything was symbolic, everything was amazing! It was like the bands Legião Urbana and Paralamas do Sucesso would be for the next generation.
Rita Lee e Gilberto Gil em show da turnê Refestança, no Recife (Outubro e Novembro de 1977)Instituto Gilberto Gil
We had Belchior, too. He was questioning, telling us so many things, and he brought an irreverence and some deep questioning. There was Alceu Valença, another revolutionary. and Raul Seixas … And there was Rita Lee. I went to one of her concerts when she came with Nina Hagen.
Gilberto Gil em Refestança (Outubro e novembro de 1977)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Gil's ideas were already libertarian and he symbolized everything for us. He was always a guy who … His manner, his attitude, his way of speaking … They were against everything that was limiting or constraining. He knew no boundaries. He was a punk, a Brazilian-style, Bahian-style punk.
Gilberto Gil, Maria Bethânia, Caetano Veloso e Gal Costa na estreia do show Doces Bárbaros no Canecão (1976-04-08)Instituto Gilberto Gil
That generation brought about a new fresh way of thinking, the hippie movement … All that "be whatever you are" and "love and let be." Gil and Caetano embodied this, they had the courage to be. A generation who showed us that this was possible.
With their innate yet unpretentious sensuality, Bethânia and Gal were human. Their album was conceived from the heart. The playlist was built around one theme.
Gilberto Gil, Gal Costa e Caetano Veloso na estreia do show Doces Bárbaros no Canecão (1976-04-08)Instituto Gilberto Gil
And, for us Blacks, Gil represented that. He may not have been a political flag, but he represented us. Him, Jorge Ben, Luiz Melodia ... That flag was for the freedom to be, and that was a big deal.
Gilberto Gil na estreia do show Doces Bárbaros no Canecão (1976-04-08)Instituto Gilberto Gil
These guys had been in prison just for talking about freedom! That was just too inconvenient. When they performed, when they appeared, they rallied people to the cause of urban identity while also introducing a nationalist context. That said a lot to people.
Your father used to buy a lot of records and he would listen to a lot of different music at home. Before that concert, had you come across Gilberto Gil's music at home?
Margareth Menezes:
My father worked in a textile factory for the Empório Industrial do Norte company. Those were the days of the military dictatorship and my father's boss was a sergeant in the navy. And so we weren't allowed to even utter the word "communist" at home and he forbade anything to do with all that stuff.
He bought records by Alcione, Clara Nunes, Dicró, Marinês e Sua Gente, Trio Nordestino, Nelson Gonçalves, but anything by Gil and Caetano—who had been imprisoned by the military—was out of the question. The most unusual thing he brought home was a Milton Nascimento LP.
I first came across Gil's music at school, with my theater group. Silas played the guitar and sang. It was through him that I discovered Gil. But then, when I learned to play the guitar, I'd play Cálice, Domingo no Parque and those other songs that I couldn't play at home.
And the revolution was musical, right? By coming up with the Tropicália movement, they were standing up for the freedom to bring a contemporary, modern expression to the stage, through Tom Zé, and Os Mutantes as well … After them came the psychedelic stuff with Itamar Assumpção, Jards Macalé …
Gilberto Gil e Caetano Veloso à época do Tropicalismo (1968)Instituto Gilberto Gil
They changed the face of Brazilian music.
What are your memories of first meeting Gilberto Gil?
Gilberto Gil em show do álbum Realce (1979)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
My first contact with Gil came at a carnival. I bumped into him on the Ladeira de Santa Thereza. I was going up and he was coming down. It was at the time of his Realce album and he had dreadlocks. I asked if I could give him a kiss.
I don't know how I came to blurt those words out. I don't remember if he was enjoying it or if it was just business. Another time, I ran into him at the Zanzibar, and (the poet José Carlos) Capinam introduced me to him again. I was already singing at night, I was doing some theater, I was striving away professionally …
Gilberto Gil com Daniel Rodrigues em foto de divulgação do álbum Realce (1979)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Daniel Rodrigues was my second manager and he was also Gil's manager. He saw me singing at a gig in Salvador and, when I came off stage, he offered to manage me.
I'd already recorded Uma história de Ifá (Elegibô), and Polygram had offered me a contract in 1988. And then Daniel came along and did the release of my first LP with me. He was with the Gege Produções production company and they had an office in Salvador. So then he took me to meet Gil.
Daniel took my work to show to a North American manager, who got in touch with David Byrne, who then took me on a world tour. From then on, I met Gil several times. There was the BASF Cromic Music Project, where two established stars introduced a new performer.
Gil and Dominguinhos introduced me on stage in Curitiba, Brasilia, Rio de Janeiro, and São Paulo. They supported me from then on.
After that, we would meet up pretty regularly …
Gilberto Gil e Margareth Menezes em show da turnê Kaya N'Gan Daya (2002)Instituto Gilberto Gil
We met several times after that. PercPan was a key moment. When Gil was celebrating 30 years in show business, the Montreux Festival paid tribute to him and I appeared on the main stage with Hermeto Paschoal and Paralamas do Sucesso …
Gilberto Gil, o cantor Tatau e as cantoras Ivete Sangalo, Daniela Mercury e Margareth Menezes no carnaval da Bahia (1998)Instituto Gilberto Gil
… Caetano, Gil, Chico Buarque, and the Trio Ternura group were all there in the theater. Then, we all got up on stage to sing together in a tribute to Gil. I was the only female vocalist from Bahia there. I went three times.
Cena do documentário Viva São João, durante show de Gilberto Gil da turnê de mesmo nome com participação de Margareth Menezes (2001)Instituto Gilberto Gil
I did two years back to back, which was somewhat unprecedented in the history of the festival. During one of those, I was singing on the same night as Gil and he called me up onto the stage. Apart from that, I took part in the Viva São João!, tour, in the concerts he gave in cities around the Northeast of Brazil and at Praia do Flamengo in Salvador.
Gilberto Gil e as cantoras Carla Cristina, Daniela Mercury e Margareth Menezes no Carnaval de Salvador (Fevereiro de 2003)Instituto Gilberto Gil
I invited him onto the top of my Movimento Afropop Brasileiro sound truck so I could pay tribute to him, along with the other samba blocks from the Brazilian Afropop theme. More recently, he also came onto my Mercado Iaô truck.
Documents from Gilberto Gil's Private ArchiveInstituto Gilberto Gil
As a fan, what was your relationship with Gil like? And what about other Bahian performers from his generation?
Margareth Menezes:
They all have something special to say. Bethânia is totally unique. For me, she's the greatest singer alive today! Her intensity, her maturity as a performer, right now, she is superb. She can hypnotize the audience so that they don't even blink.
And song after song, she moves them, she touches them. She can get them whooping and hollering with delight! She is a repertoire genius and knows how to put a playlist together. Gal as well, and she released an album I loved.
What's the contact like between Margareth and Gil as Carnival performers?
Caetano Veloso e Gilberto Gil no carnaval da BahiaInstituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
At Carnival time, both Gil and Caetano were always here, busy doing things and supporting the Carnival. Then Flora launched their Expresso 2222 camarote (viewing box), which became a Carnival hallmark. He invited us, that's to say me, Tatau, Daniela Mercury, Ivete, onto his Expresso 2222 sound truck.
I've joined him at Carnival more than once. And he's been on my Carnival trucks, too, with the Os Máscarados samba block and with the Movimento Afropop block, which did a tribute to him. They also paid tribute to my 25-year career at their Expresso 2222 camarote (viewing box), and that made me feel very honored.
For those of us who sing, Carnival isn't just about fun. We're talking three, four, five, six hours … You know what time you'll be starting but not when you'll finish. The logistics for the trios elétricos (sound trucks) are a pain in the butt, because the trucks are meant to be moving but then you get these bottlenecks.
When Gil took Expresso on the alternative route, the Barra one, he brought Lulu Santos and other artists who don't come to Carnival very often and it gave things a more pop look. I had already brought along Cássia Eller, Zélia Duncan, Edson Cordeiro …
Documents from Gilberto Gil's Private ArchiveInstituto Gilberto Gil
And Gil brought Bono and so many other people, always teaming up with others and wanting to work together. Together with Flora—who plays a huge part on the administrative side and is always on the ball—they score some marvelous goals every year at Carnival.
Whenever you've recorded Gil, what was it that prompted you? On your CD “Naturalmente” (2008), you included the song “Mulher de Coronel” from his album “O Eterno Deus Mu Dança” (1989). For “Voz Talismã” (2014), you recorded “Toda Menina Baiana” from his 1979 “Realce” album. And on “Autêntica” (2019), there's the previously unheard “Paraguassu," which you had sung at the PercPan Festival in 2000 but never recorded.
Gilberto Gil e Hermeto Pascoal (1978)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
The first song I recorded was Domingo no Parque, with Hermeto Pascoal, on the SongBook album. Then I invited him to appear on my album Naturalmente, where he sang Mulher de Coronel with me. Gil's album, O Eterno Deus Mu Dança, was very significant in my life.
Capa do álbum O Eterno Deus Mu Dança, de Gilberto Gil (1989)Instituto Gilberto Gil
It included Mulher de Coronel and, then, I resurrected Índigo Blue in a concert at Salvador's Praça Castro Alves theater in 1989. Paraguassu was written for an edition of the PercPan Festival that featured myself, Ivete Sangalo, and Daniela Mercury. He did a song for each of us.
Gilberto Gil e diversos percussionistas no show do Panorama Percussivo Mundial - PercPan (2002)Instituto Gilberto Gil
That was the one he wrote for me, based on the festival theme. I'd forgotten that. The maestro Alfredo Moura was in the studio when I was recording Autêntica and he reminded me. Right then, I thought that the album all came down to that one song …
… because this is my album about women. And the song is about Catarina Paraguassu, who was the Indigenous heiress to all the land where the city of Salvador now stands. She fell in love with Caramuru, the Portuguese colonist who was shipwrecked and ended up in Salvador. Once she was free, they traveled to Portugal.
Nara Gil, Maria Gil e Margareth Menezes no camarim do show de Gilberto Gil no Canecão: Eu, Tu, Eles (2004-04)Instituto Gilberto Gil
She was a female figure with huge strength, so much so that she left her mark on Brazilian history. And, besides, this was also a previously unheard song by Gil. It was a huge privilege for me to record it.
Tell me about the Gil tribute concert that you did, including the re-run during lockdown.
Margareth Menezes:
For some time I'd wanted to do a concert singing Gil's hits, and another for Caetano's. When they were celebrating their 50 years in show business, the Teatro Rival offered me a slot and, remembering the anniversary, I felt it'd be cool to combine both in the same concert.
Putting together the concert didn't take long. I chose the playlist, with Alexandre Leão as the musical director, but I had a lot of freedom when it came to choosing the songs and deciding on the arrangements. I was not planning to make a DVD. I chose 12 songs by each of them.
And, on the day of the concert, the journalist Mauro Ferreira was in the audience. He wrote a good review and that inspired me. I went back to Salvador and we did a performance in a small theater. That was a bit of a hassle because the space was just too small and so we went to Fortaleza.
Gilberto Gil e as cantoras Preta Gil e Margareth Menezes na gravação do DVD Para Gil & Caetano (2014-05-27)Instituto Gilberto Gil
From there, it all took off. I returned several times to Rio de Janeiro. I toured with this concert for four years and recorded the DVD in Vivo Rio with Caetano and Gil. Caetano was traveling and so we did the recording later in Gil's studio. And Gil recorded on stage and it was really cool …
Gilberto Gil e as cantoras Preta Gil e Margareth Menezes na gravação do DVD Para Gil & Caetano (2014-05-27)Instituto Gilberto Gil
… because I invited Bem Gil and Moreno Veloso to join the band, as well as Preta Gil to sing Refazenda with Gil and myself and Panis et Circensis with me, Bem, and Moreno. And Gil appeared on other tracks. Flora Gil and Paula Lavigne provided huge encouragement and never did anything to block the recordings.
Gilberto Gil e as cantoras Preta Gil e Margareth Menezes na gravação do DVD Para Gil & Caetano (2014-05-27)Instituto Gilberto Gil
I was releasing Voz Talismã and the album sponsors—the TV channel Canal Brasil—went nuts about the Caetano and Gil album and so I ended up doing both albums with their help. When I look back today, I feel hugely thankful for having had the backing from both of them to record 24 songs for just one album ...
I felt very honored. When I reflect back, I only feel gratitude, because this was certainly an album that has defined my career as a singer, enabling me to go even further artistically.
Gilberto Gil e as cantoras Preta Gil e Margareth Menezes na gravação do DVD Para Gil & Caetano (2014-05-27)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Every time I think about it, I see what I did and I am very grateful for the part they played in it all.
Do you have a favorite Gil record?
Gilberto Gil em show da turnê Um Banda Um (1982)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
Gil's albums were always compilations. Gil's head is a kaleidoscope of thoughts and ideas. He's rather esoteric. He always talks about his vision in his songs. It's so nice when you hear a human being who is feeling something and is able to express that feeling …
Gilberto Gil e Caetano Veloso em show da turnê europeia Dois Amigos, Um Século de Música (2015-07-01)Instituto Gilberto Gil
... as part of the message in a song like Drão, which he wrote for his ex-wife ... What a magnificent way of talking about a relationship that's over! He gives a timelessness to what they created together.
Gilberto Gil faz show na Bélgica, pela turnê internacional do álbum OK OK OK (2019-07-24)Instituto Gilberto Gil
What I see is a lot of spiritual ancestry, where he dives deeply into what binds the spirit to creation.
And he has never had any problem capturing his admiration for the feminine, right?
Gilberto Gil e Flora Gil com a ex-esposa do músico, Sandra Gadelha, no Pelourinho, em Salvador (1990)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
One thing I find cool about Gil is that he never put himself in my shoes. But he did. His ideas about humanity, his way of speaking about his love for things, his love for human beings. That beautiful song Sandra —where he sings "Maria Aparecida because you appeared in my life"—is something else!
Gilberto Gil e Flora Gil em ensaio fotográficoInstituto Gilberto Gil
The way he talks about women is so lovely. He is speaking as a man, but as a man lacking any machismo, lacking that need to be superior to women. He is a human being who is crying, who is opening up, who is feeling tenderness.
Gilberto Gil e Flora Gil em ensaio fotográficoInstituto Gilberto Gil
He is valuing motherhood, and all womankind. That's it. What makes him special is that he is, of course, a human being, with all his qualities and faults, but without any need for vanity.
You identified one of his most noticeable characteristics, namely his discretion.
Margareth Menezes:
And he has a serious side. He doesn't make music to have hits. He makes music because he has a gift for it. Besides all that stuff about putting ideas into words, he has an incredible ear, he knows his instrument, the musical theory part. He has mastered the guitar, in its range, its arpeggios, its beats.
It's not easy to talk about Gilberto Gil because his talent as an artist is unlike most others anywhere in the world. Caetano is something else, but he's also up there. Caetano and Gil are two peas in a pod, they go together like Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, they have huge potential.
And what was your view of Gil as a minister?
O então ministro da Cultura Gilberto Gil e Juca Ferreira, então secretário executivo do Ministério da Cultura, no lançamento da criação de Câmaras Setoriais de Cultura (2004-10-25)Instituto Gilberto Gil
Margareth Menezes:
As a minister, Gil managed to do something, together with Juca Ferreira, that no-one had ever done before. For the first time, a minister visited different cities to meet with local artists, producers, and representatives. It was the first time I ever saw a culture minister do this.
Ministro da Cultura Gilberto Gil na abertura do evento Teia de Cultura e Cidadania, Mostra de Cultura do Brasil e Economia Solidária (2006-04-05)Instituto Gilberto Gil
They created these Pontos de Cultura (Cultural Hotspots) everywhere, in large and small cities alike. They set up a network. The problem was that, just when he was making those connections, starting to build on the idea of the network and put his vision into practice, there was a change of ministers and culture was once again low down on the list of priorities.
What does Gilberto Gil mean to you and what do you think is the legacy that he has left, and continues to leave, for you, for culture, and for Brazil?
Margareth Menezes:
When he said that Bahia was his guiding light, he gave us that same guiding light. He changed the way of writing songs for popular music. When these guys came on the scene, they brought a new language. Gil, with this new song language, his way of writing …
… giving us ijesha, samba bossa nova, samba rock, split beats, the tones that he conjures out of his guitar … It enhances him and sets him apart, because this guy goes places through that instrument, through technology. He was the first one to use internet technology in music. He's given us so many things.
Interview and video editing: Chris Fuscaldo
Assembly: Laura Zandonadi
General credits
Editor and curator: Chris Fuscaldo / Garota FM Edições
Music content research: Ceci Alves, Chris Fuscaldo, Laura Zandonadi, and Ricardo Schott
Culture Ministry (MinC) content research: Carla Peixoto, Ceci Alves, and Chris Fuscaldo
Photo captions: Anna Durão, Carla Peixoto, Chris Fuscaldo, Daniel Malafaia, Fernanda Pimentel, Gilberto Porcidonio, Kamille Viola, Laura Zandonadi, Lucas Vieira, Luciana Azevedo, Patrícia Sá Rêgo, Pedro Felitte, Ricardo Schott, Roni Filgueiras, and Tito Guedes
Data editor: Isabela Marinho and Marco Konopacki
Gege Produções proofreading: Cristina Doria
Acknowledgments: Gege Produções, Gilberto Gil, Flora Gil, Gilda Mattoso, Fafá Giordano, Maria Gil, Meny Lopes, Nelci Frangipani, Cristina Doria, Daniella Bartolini, all the photographers, and all those who have played a part in this story
All media: Instituto Gilberto Gil
*Every effort has been made to credit the images, audio tapes, and video files and to accurately convey the stories told in the exhibits. If you find any errors and/or omissions, please email atendimentogil@gege.com.br
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