Lula: "No other country in the world had a culture minister like my dear Gil"

I want you to know what a pleasure it is to be able to talk about my comrade Gil, someone who left the Ministry against my wishes … I didn't want him to go! 

I'm going to tell you something, because it's relevant … I thought that he would be doing himself a disservice, but he was really worried, what he said to me was: "Mr President, I can't live on 8,000 Brazilian Reais! I've got a very large family and I have to help them out!" 

He wasn't comfortable cutting back on his concert schedule. I know what it's like: you've got a family, you've got expenses, you've got a lot of bills to pay. And, to prevent Gil leaving the government even earlier, I said: 

Take, for example, a comrade like Antônio Grassi, who was the head of the National Arts Foundation and who, at the beginning, wouldn't accept Gil. Then there's another comrade, Paulo Betti, who also had problems with him. But what I said to Gil was: 

"There's no reason for you to get upset. This is my problem. You didn't ask to come to the Ministry, you didn't take any competitive entrance exam … I'm pointing this out to you because it's my duty. So, what you tell them is this:  'It's like this. If you don't want me here, have a word with Lula'" (laughter). 

Later on, I think everyone started to like him. Because he was, actually, the person we needed in Culture. You've no idea of how much joy Gil gave us when we traveled with him, especially when it was to an African country. He'd sing, he'd dance … he was a great guy!

There was this trip we made to Senegal. We went to visit the famous Gorée Island and we went to the so-called Door of No Return. It was really emotional because we went to the cells where they kept the women and children. 

There was Gil, Matilde (Ribeiro,  the Secretary for the Promotion of Racial Equality), me, and the president of Senegal (Abdoulaye Wade).

Suddenly, you open a door, and the sea is right there. That's why it's called the Door of No Return, because you'd go in through that door and straight out onto the boat that would take you to the slave ship, and you'd never return to your country again. 

And that was the day when I asked the African people for forgiveness for those 350 years of slavery, saying that our indebtedness to Africa was not simply for our culture, for our color, for our art, for our beauty, for everything we are. 

I said that it was very important, that we couldn't just erase it, measure it in money. Brazil has to pay this back through solidarity, through scientific and technological transfer. 

Then, Gil found himself being widely accepted. Then, people started liking him, even those who hadn't liked him before, because you also needn't be worried about being universally liked, nobody is universally liked. 

You need to work with people who want to work with you, to do the best you can. And that's what Gil did, with a lot of courage, with a lot of magnanimity. Sincerely speaking, I learned to worship Gil because of his easygoing manner, his kindness, his respect,  his wisdom.

You'd go to African countries, you'd arrive there and there'd be those welcoming dances, and when you least expected it, there'd be Gil dancing (laughter) … I can say that it was really great having Gil as culture minister. I think that nobody will ever have another Gil like I did.

Gil was appointed because of a range of qualities that I saw in him and that I felt were needed in Brazil. As well as being a multitalented performer, he represented our beloved Black population. 

And, even more, he represented that guy who had won. I always like experience, because there are those who think that when you defend the poorest, it's because you love poverty. 

No! I hate poverty! I want everyone out of poverty! And Gil represented the rise of the Black movement in Brazil. He represented just this: 

"Look, I'm a black guy, who was born in a Black state [Bahia], I'm from the Northeast, and I've made a success of my life. I've made a success of my life in here, I've made a success of my life out there, I'm respected here, I'm respected there, I was feared here, by the military …" It was a host of values that made me ask Gil.

And that was what I think pleased Brazilian society. I can say, without fear of being wrong: no other country in the world had a culture minister like my dear Gil. Not one, not a single one.

I made 32 trips to Africa, to 22 countries, and I opened 19 new embassies there. Since leaving the presidency, I've made 16 trips to Africa and visited 11 countries. My commitment was because I understood that Brazil must never erase Africa from its history.

The history book on Brazil has to include Angola, São Tomé and Principe, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau … These Portuguese-speaking countries were always part of our history. We're talking 350 years! 

I'm delighted that Gil also thought the same. You have to look at the number of trips Gil made to Africa with me. I could even have chosen a politician for the Ministry of Culture. But politics is really dull!  I didn't want a guy who was heavy going.

Anyone who doesn't like Juca won't like this because he's now going to be my minister, he's going to carry on from Gil.

Gil coming to the Ministry allowed people to see the palm-greasing that was going on in culture, right here in Brasilia, where they were only looking after the so-called formal culture, profitable culture, the culture that made money,  and that is easy to do.

Gil coming here made it possible for people … not for people to go to where culture was, but for people to bring the culture that already exists in Brazil into Brazil. Making the nation aware of the cultural wealth that there is in the hinterland of the Northeast.

That there is in the Jequitinhonha Valley, in Minas Gerais; that there is among people working in arts and crafts, see? There is an immense wealth that the people who live in Brasilia aren't aware of!

There were two things that I wanted to do with Gil that we didn't manage to get done. One is that I'd told Gil that I'd like people to make around ten feature films about the history of Brazil. 

Pick the best moments in Brazil's history and make ten super-productions that could even challenge for an Oscar. And look for the money men, who are real scoundrels, you know?

You won't find a Brazilian money man who's willing to put money into culture! He'll come up with money for a Rio 92, a Rio whatever year, a Rock in Rio, yeah? Because he wants a profit at the box office door: he invests on Sunday and wants the profit on Monday!

He wants to spend the night counting the profit he's made! You don't have a guy who is willing to pick up a project for 20, 30 million Brazilian Reais [around 4-6 million US dollars] to make one hell of a film … And we're going to bring this country to the world's attention, just like the North Americans do!

The other thing that I wanted to do, you know that square, that grassy area between the bus station and the President's Palace [in Brasilia]? That square that's always empty? What I imagined was having a Culture Festival there all year round. 

That could be a place with some well-built stalls, a theater festival in one bit, a music festival in another, a movie festival in another … Get Brazil bubbling! Regrettably, that wasn't possible either. 

Then, I dreamed up with Gil the idea of holding a Nation Week, in the Square of the Three Powers. Music, food, dancing … but we couldn't get it done. I think that when Gil went to talk to the advisers, they said: "That's a lot of work! There isn't the money." Those are my disappointments.

From time to time, I still talk to Gil, because we sometimes meet up via zoom, with him, Bela Gil, sometimes Flora, Janja, me, Chico (Buarque), João Paulo from the Landless Movement …

From time to time we have these zoom meetings so we can chat a bit … And I think he's doing OK. I've seen some of his live streams and he's OK. I think he can cope with a bit more ministry stuff, don't you? (laughter) 

I think that when we talk about that, he'll be so shocked but I think he can cope with a bit more … He's more experienced, wiser, now his family's all grown up, isn't he? Only eating organic food that Bela makes for him … So, I think he'll do just fine.

Well, you know that I'm lousy with songs. When Elis Regina died, I went to the funeral, and I couldn't remember any … In 1989, when I was on strike, who was there and even sat on my leg? Gonzaguinha. I worshiped him. I went to his funeral, and I couldn't remember any there, either.

I remembered La Lune de Gorée, because he sang it to me at a very special moment. But I think that Luar [A Gente Precisa Ver o Luar] is a lovely song, one that I think says a lot, really a lot … 

I think that the ladies must like Luar a lot. And, then, Super Homem [Super Homem (A Canção)]. I think that Gil stands out because of his songwriting skills, because he speaks to people in his songs.